One of my friends is looking for a match made in heaven. Yeah, by truly connecting the stars and figuring out the compatibility. The guy is a metro sexual, would date women, have a modern outlook on life and career, but would end up rejecting girls on the basis of kundali ! Somehow, i feel a lot of people around us are like this. Irrespective of the educational background or lifestyle, they stick to their deep rooted conventional practices at times of test. Nothing wrong about it, but i sense a disconnect there. You just cant reduce a person to their DTP of birth! Me thinks that it will take atleast one more generation for the real way of life to emerge from this psuedo living. When individuality is born beyond reasons that the person doesnot influence like appearance and kundali.
Lets see…
This entry was written by , posted on May 20, 2009 at 7:34 pm, filed under my 2 cents and tagged horoscope, kundali, matching.
Kundali-Match, a part of Jyotish Shastra is not some hocus-pocus but a complete science based on observations and analyses done some thousands of years ago by the very intelligent sages of India. The science is perfect, so it should give perfect results with no divorces if kundli was matched before. But it is just like the aeroplanes which are built in keeping every detail of newtonian and god knows may be quantum physics too, still end up crashing. Doesnt mean Newton’s laws are useless. Education should
Also it appeared Education and lifestyle, as you say should bar a person from believing in Kundali-matching before getting hitched with a girl for a lifetime. But Education should also make us broad minded and make us find out the answer to “Why”. Rather than being judgemental about it and tabling it under the category of deep-rooted conventionalism. So whats wrong about believing in deep-rooted conventionalism, in case we know its for good. But we never made an effort to find it out. We solely depended on the love-stories that ended immaturely because of this. And we proclaim ourselves to be of scientific temperament.
Anyways dont take it too seriously.I know it’s just a blog and over that a personal place to rant.
A very well thought comment. I really appreciate your thought process, however i still beg to differ on a few things. It is true that we ought to ask “why” instead of jumping to conclusions based on observations and blind beliefs. Similarly, shouldnt we also question “how” the science of astrology has evolved and how perfectly does it sync to an ever burgeoning world (in all senses). I somehow find the thought of comparing humans who are so complex, considering their thoughts and actions to a man-built machine like aeroplane. Arent we overlooking something called “life”, which signifies amongst other things like passion, indulgences, likes n dislikes, adoptations etc which you claim to be predictable just by their DTP. I believe that the individual is the master of his own fate and doesnot tread a path that has been fore written for him !
Nice one. In my opinion, some where you need to believe the aboriginal truth about the astrological predictions derived from the position of the stars. Now when I say predictions, I feel like this is all superficial. However when I say assumptions while studying Physics, how do I justify that belief?
May be we need to look at Astrology as a science from a different angle. We negate the concept yet unknowingly believe in some of the things it propagates, for example our luck.
As for me, I got love-married. But our kundalis hardly matched. As you rightly said, we became the masters or our own fate.
Every situation in life is akin to a closed control system. The course of life is decided upon the direction you give along with the feedback (karma) of the previous action.
It’s like a resultant vector. The astrology tries to explain the karma, the force vector coming from the higher platform. Definitely our current actions also influence the outcome. So I agree here with you say when you say “the individual is the master of his own fate and doesnot tread a path that has been fore written for him !”
@Mayur: I sincerely wish and pray that your marriage survives all the hardships and remains ever blissful.
Kundlis- wow! This is off late been my favourite topic to debate… Considering my mum’s making frequent rounds of the astrologers to find out by when I will get married, the kind of boy I will get married to etc etc. And if our astrologer thinks I need to do something to make my planets smile on me which helps me find a good match ‘catch’… I don’t even find it funny now!
My first ques to the astrologer was when he told my mum she will get married between Sep 2009- early next year- if you can tell me the time period then please tell me how, when where will I meet him- a cold glance from my mum and a grin from the astrologer is what I got as an answer….
Point 2- My horoscope did match perfectly according to the astrologer with this guy my parents wanted me to meet and consider… It did not work out! If our horoscopes were such perfect matches actually then why did it not work out??? – I have the reasons and know them as well… But my point it how did matching the horoscopes help???
Point 3- my parents finally have given me a go ahead- that if I like/love someone they will be happy about it- now I asked my mom, if I actually find someone for myself should I ask for his time and DOB match my horoscope with his and only if they should I go ahead and if they don’t then I should let go of it.. no matter how good the person is? Well, do I need to say what I got for asking this question….!
Of course I don’t believe in matching horoscopes. I have to believe in the person I want to be with… everything else comes as part of the deal- good/bad whatever… I do believe in god and I am sure he will help me make the right choice in life- I just won’t let go of something which I think is right for just because my stars say so! My stars are mine- I will show them the way….
@Mayur – i am sure a lot of people have tried to explore the science, and yet despite efforts of centuries, there is a lot of ambiguity. True, people tend to trust it blindly in the hope that the stars foretell their future. Anyways, wish u a grt married life. But why did u match the kundali, when you know u were gonna get married anyways ?
@Shalav – I like ur explanation of resultant vector, caused by multiple forces. I guess it depends on the individual to decide the dominant force.
@Pallavi – u do ask tough questions to the astrologers eh? I like the closing line of your comment. “My stars are mine- I will show them the way…” sums up the post aptly !
Using modern scientific sounding terms (vectors et al) while describing an unscientific ‘science’ which is based on part calculations (which are accurate no doubt) and assumptions (which are borne out of people’s fancies) does not render scientific credibility to it.
When I ask ‘why’ for astrology, the first question I ask is: how does it work. No one has been able to answer yet, apart from “it’s a field of force”, “it’s gravitational force”, but no one has even taken a try of explaining what this so-called force is. If large rocks millions of miles away are supposed to affect us with some ‘force’, rocks closer by should affect us strongly, as you know any force between two bodies goes down with increasing distance. Shouldn’t then my kundali and fortune change when I sit under a large tree?
Shalav might label me as irreverent and close-minded – happens everywhere I discuss astrology. But I am sorry, I cannot bring myself to believe it until I see something to lend it credibility, however hard I try. And no, “intelligent sages told us so, so it must be true” does not work, it is a logical fallacy.
Don! Have a happy birthday!
So you’re a gemini eh?
@Amit: Damn neat comment!
@hypnos…Quite aptly articulated…will be interesting to see if shalav would respond to this ? But again, how can something remain a fallacy for generations and find so much acceptance amongst people ?
Haan bhai…i know what that wink means
Thanks for your wishes !
It remains popular because of human nature. Just the way religion remains popular. Just the way there was a Nazi movement. Just the way there is a Taliban.
Some people think that these ideas hold more water than anything out there, and since they have already fixed their opinions, the need for rational basis for these ideas does not arise for them.
@Amit: You could not have been more unfocussed when you wrote that reply. You have a vague idea about astrology n perhaps people you approached also had the same vague idea. Most Indians don’t have any idea about why we do what we do? I am referring to our parent’s generations. But our intelligent brain being the product of mindless technological advancement shudders in utter disbelief and in order to find excuse to do what we like to do slide cultural/social rituals under the carpet of conventionalism. I agree as society evolves, cultures do too. But somethings remain prominent. Without being too philosophical about it, let me get down to ur comments.
You called astrology an “unscientific science”. What does science constitute –> Developing hypothesis based on observation n experimentation. Then over the period the hypothesis becomes a theory when the result is repeated over times. Is that what you call scientific science. Well that is how astrology developed. Based on observing that certain star patterns correspond to certain situations in life of a being. Perhaps you have not tried it n so u are doubting its efficacy.
Using modern scientific sounding terms (vectors et al) while describing an unscientific ‘science’ which is based on part calculations (which are accurate no doubt) and assumptions (which are borne out of people’s fancies) does not render scientific credibility to it.
Likewise you may not even be giving credibility to statements issued by CERN and NASA because they use the most complex scientific mumbo jumbo. Oh! No I forgot, you only doubt unscientific science, but you absolutely trust the scientific science. Why? Oh! Perhaps you have seen for urself the alpha/beta/gamma particles and intricate crystalline structures in solids. And yes you may have had a trip to a black hole too, that you give credibility to these statements. (I am assuming you do).
Not being too personal about it. I ask WHY? Why do you have implicit faith in the words of scientists and not our scriptures? If you are so much against putting faith on anything without testing it, do you everytime board a flight go and check the flying skills of the pilot. No! You don’t. I hope you don’t! But based on past experience you have reasonable faith. So dear friend all I ask is before we shrug anything off, lets test it, if our decision is right or not.
When I ask ‘why’ for astrology, the first question I ask is: how does it work. No one has been able to answer yet, apart from “it’s a field of force”, “it’s gravitational force”, but no one has even taken a try of explaining what this so-called force is. If large rocks millions of miles away are supposed to affect us with some ‘force’, rocks closer by should affect us strongly, as you know any force between two bodies goes down with increasing distance. Shouldn’t then my kundali and fortune change when I sit under a large tree?
And why do you think that would not happen. Fengshui and Vastu Shastra deal with these things closer to us. That would be a separate topic
Shalav might label me as irreverent and close-minded – happens everywhere I discuss astrology. But I am sorry, I cannot bring myself to believe it until I see something to lend it credibility, however hard I try. And no, “intelligent sages told us so, so it must be true” does not work, it is a logical fallacy.
No Amit, I don’t label you anything. Because 99% of population thinks like you. All we need to do is come out of ignorance.
Last but not least, why the hell am I fighting a case for astrology when I myself do not believe in going and showing my hand or birthchart to someone.
Two things:
1. I am arguing not for astrology but against the long cultivated deep hatred for anything conventional in our society
2. I have full faith in god. And I believe my Lord will take care of me in any situation. And whatever situation may come would have been arranged by HIM and no one else. For he alone commands this universe(and many others) and the planets thereof.
With this I want to convey that I do not wish to argue anymore on the astrology case, I not being an expert in that area. But I would welcome you to discuss (not challenge) about anything spiritual.
@Ranjith… Wish you a belated happy birthday.
@all..
thoda lamba ho gaya bhai log… pls bear it….with a grin.
Have a great day!
Replied as expected
This is not the time nor place to discuss/debate/“challenge” (as you called it) astrology/the spiritual/god. So let us let it rest.
@shalav…Good comment….i was watching angels and demons yesterday, and it rakes up the age old battle between science and god…i think only time has the answer to clarify about the grey areas….highly appreciate your valuable contribution to this debate. Thnx for ur wishes too..
@hypnos…nice to see the hypnos in action like in a CP
)
“replied as expected?” oh! here we have one more babaji, who can predict responses! You use crystal balls or tarot?
Amit, this might not be the place, but definitely the time to discuss spirituality. Because you’ve got a human form and by the grace of god, the ability to understand the science of self.
We might be well-educated which only helps us as far as acquiring resources for eating, sleeping mating and defending; which by the way animals do without the burden of attending schools/colleges/B-schools n conferences.
Just an invitation. Please feel free to reach out.
@Amit….thanks for acknowledging. I have read the novel before and though fictional serves a great purpose. Because it impresses on the mind of youth of today that science and religion are not different but branches of study at different levels of understanding.
I am not against technology, but against using it to deny God’s existence.
I don’t need “babaji” like predictive powers to expect types of replies from types of people do I? I could have been wrong, and would have accepted it happily if I was, but no, your last post and this one too, are dot on what I had expected
About inviting me to “reach out” towards spirituality, may I point out that you are preaching? I don’t like preachers.
BTW, if according to you the only thing apart from following religion an organism can do is eat, sleep, mate and defend, I don’t know what to say to you… I guess whatever else I do with my life is a waste.
And another BTW, we were discussing astrology. Suddenly we are discussing a proposal for me to “understand my self”? If we at all need to discuss here can we stay on one topic please?
@ Shalav: have been reading all your comments, don’t you think you totally switched from the subject… you don’t believe in astrology yourself-then there is nothing else left to debate on the topic. Spiritualism/faith in god are way too different subjects from astrology and yes, very personal too! I may not have the same beliefs as you do and vice versa…we all are entitled to have our own views and I don’t think anyone has the right or authority to challenge that…
@ Shalav again: in case you missed reading- this blog is titled ‘no gyan, just life’. hope you get the point!
@Pallavi: You are right! Thanks for reminding me about the blog’s title. My fault, I spoke out of place. Mistake admitted
@ Shalav: the point is not that you spoke out of place, the point is you are trying to give gyan…
>>Well that is how astrology developed
Scientific theories are repeatable with the same results for a given set of inputs… Doesn’t happen with astrology, when this is pointed out, those astrologers find another “variable” which “affected” the outcome
@manojar – Had you gone through all comments, it would suffice to write a book
makes me wonder about its universal appeal despite such flaws !
Though I am quite late and my comments may not match the post but I just wanted to say that this post and especially the comments on it were the reason I visited this blog. Pallavi told me about this and said I should read Shalav’s comments on this blog. So I am here now. But I have to give it to you guys. You have a lot of stamina and patience. Quite a nice blog you have got Ranjith and I congratulate you for this.
@prateek…Like pallavi mentioned, Shalav was the hero of this post. Do suggest you check out his blog! There were quite a few perspectives on this topic from all of us, and do not ask for the common conclusion
Thanks for considering this blog as nice ! Would keep me going…
The appeal of this post continues. Just read the last few feedbacks and it reminded me the whole discussion. LOL!
true shalav ! it was a rage and a timeless discussion :p